Author Topic: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive  (Read 4059 times)

Offline Kingpin

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Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« on: March 08, 2013, 10:31:24 AM »
found this..Puts things in perspective.
"Dessert is for people who don't drink enough."
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. "

Offline thnksno

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2013, 11:02:24 AM »
Part time work is the wave of the future! It's comical that folks need to drive to and from work 2-3 times a day just to earn a full time wage, what's that doing for the environment?

The weekly and monthly job numbers have consistently been bogus with 'unexpected' changes and the prior week's numbers always revised negatively. I get a kick how the lame stream goes on and on about a 5,000 drop in initial claims as they conveniently overlook the fact the prior week was revised up 7,000. Supposedly last month 236,000 jobs were created, never mind the fact that Challenger Gray & Christmas reported anticipated layoffs were the highest they had been since 2008.

Here's the real scoop, NOBODY knows what the hell is going on!

Offline snopork

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 01:50:37 PM »
The red line is 2007.  So assuming the red line started in Jan it hit it peak low 24 months later in Jan of 2009.  Since then its gone steadily back up.  Not sure of the point your makin but what i see is evidence that the recession started in the last 2 years of Bush and hit ock bottom as he left office then slowly started to improve with Obama rescue. 

Interesting that you post that....

Offline thnksno

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 02:12:03 PM »
The red line is 2007.  So assuming the red line started in Jan it hit it peak low 24 months later in Jan of 2009.  Since then its gone steadily back up.  Not sure of the point your makin but what i see is evidence that the recession started in the last 2 years of Bush and hit ock bottom as he left office then slowly started to improve with Obama rescue. 

Interesting that you post that....

Shoulda brushed up a little more on reading charts Andy... The red line starts when the recession was officially called a recession, or "peak employment' defined as 0%, that's why they all start at 0%. It clearly shows that we're nowhere near the level of employment we had when the recession started. The majority of the prior 10 recessions prior to the Obama Losses were ABOVE peak employment within 30 months of the start of the recession.

Offline tony b

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 02:13:24 PM »
The red line is 2007.  So assuming the red line started in Jan it hit it peak low 24 months later in Jan of 2009.  Since then its gone steadily back up.  Not sure of the point your makin but what i see is evidence that the recession started in the last 2 years of Bush and hit ock bottom as he left office then slowly started to improve with Obama rescue. 

Interesting that you post that....

the point of the graph is that this recessions recovery has been prolonged drastically by the "obama rescue".  other recessions "bounce back" has been much faster and as history has shown repeatedly, recoveries usually preface a very strong growth period, which we have yet to see here.

so yes, bush and the democratic congress starting in '06 were largely responsible for the politics of the recession, but the reality is that the banking industry was far more culpable, and more specifically the subprime mtg industry that was a direct long term result of the community reinvestment act started under carter and continued under guys like barney frank among others from both parties. 

while I know you worship at the throne of obama, and bush will forever take the hit on this recession, reality shows us that obama has done NOTHING to foster better business practices and there is a strong argument that can easily be made that business has spurred what little recovery we've seen IN SPITE of obama, not because of him
You hate your job??  why didn't you say so?? well, there's a support group for that, it's called EVERYBODY and they meet at the bar.

Offline thnksno

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 02:17:52 PM »
reality shows us that obama has done NOTHING to foster better business practices and there is a strong argument that can easily be made that business has spurred what little recovery we've seen IN SPITE of obama, not because of him

One word explains why.... OBAMACARE! Had the ID10T not forced that down everyone's throat, we might actually have had a recovery!

Offline snopork

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2013, 02:20:55 PM »
The red line is 2007.  So assuming the red line started in Jan it hit it peak low 24 months later in Jan of 2009.  Since then its gone steadily back up.  Not sure of the point your makin but what i see is evidence that the recession started in the last 2 years of Bush and hit ock bottom as he left office then slowly started to improve with Obama rescue. 

Interesting that you post that....

Shoulda brushed up a little more on reading charts Andy... The red line starts when the recession was officially called a recession, or "peak employment' defined as 0%, that's why they all start at 0%. It clearly shows that we're nowhere near the level of employment we had when the recession started. The majority of the prior 10 recessions prior to the Obama Losses were ABOVE peak employment within 30 months of the start of the recession.
Oh, I get all that - but what you are blindly missing is the fact that it tooks 2 years under steadily deteriorating conditions under Bush before it hit bottom.  On the earlier recessions it already had recovered before that 24 month mark - but with Bush and the GOP in denial it was still hitting bottom 2 months later.  The chart shows that it steadily improves under the Current administration - perhaps hampered by the denial-ridden GOP'ers and Tea Party douchebags still in office.

As an independent I can see where in the next midterm election the GOP does not have a majority in any house - they still don't quite get it.  Oh, well.  I vote for the man and not the party.  Any person who feels that they have to follow party line no longer represents the people - they represent whichever affiliation they have.  We need more independent thinkers and politicians - to bad the masses believe what they hear too much.

Offline tony b

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2013, 02:21:10 PM »
reality shows us that obama has done NOTHING to foster better business practices and there is a strong argument that can easily be made that business has spurred what little recovery we've seen IN SPITE of obama, not because of him

One word explains why.... OBAMACARE! Had the ID10T not forced that down everyone's throat, we might actually have had a recovery!
cmon, obamacare was planned to be a failure, it will help them lead us to a full on nationalized system like they originally wanted.  it's going to happen here eventually, the US is about the only civilized country that does not have a social medicine program of some type.  sadly, this is one thing I have written off as an inevitability.   :ranting:
You hate your job??  why didn't you say so?? well, there's a support group for that, it's called EVERYBODY and they meet at the bar.

Offline tony b

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2013, 02:22:38 PM »
As an independent I can see where in the next midterm election the GOP does not have a majority in any house - they still don't quite get it.  Oh, well.  I vote for the man and not the party.  Any person who feels that they have to follow party line no longer represents the people - they represent whichever affiliation they have.  We need more independent thinkers and politicians - to bad the masses believe what they hear too much.

you say that and you voted (and continue to praise) one of the most partisan guys ever in the white house???   :laugh-til-cry:
You hate your job??  why didn't you say so?? well, there's a support group for that, it's called EVERYBODY and they meet at the bar.

Offline tony b

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2013, 02:26:33 PM »
reality shows us that obama has done NOTHING to foster better business practices and there is a strong argument that can easily be made that business has spurred what little recovery we've seen IN SPITE of obama, not because of him

One word explains why.... OBAMACARE! Had the ID10T not forced that down everyone's throat, we might actually have had a recovery!
i will say this though, if obama had put that much energy into jobs and recovery instead of healthcare he'd probably actually be able to pass healthcare now without much argument
You hate your job??  why didn't you say so?? well, there's a support group for that, it's called EVERYBODY and they meet at the bar.

Offline snopork

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2013, 05:57:31 PM »
As an independent I can see where in the next midterm election the GOP does not have a majority in any house - they still don't quite get it.  Oh, well.  I vote for the man and not the party.  Any person who feels that they have to follow party line no longer represents the people - they represent whichever affiliation they have.  We need more independent thinkers and politicians - to bad the masses believe what they hear too much.

you say that and you voted (and continue to praise) one of the most partisan guys ever in the white house???   :laugh-til-cry:
Yea, right.  Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove were by far the most partisan guys ever.  The comparison isn't even close.  The more Cheney speaks now and writes in his book - the more I'm convinced Bush was the weakest president we've had in modern times.  He was an electable and likeable puppet who was steered and manipulated by Rove, Cheney and Rumsfeld.  When Rumsfeld got into hot water he resigned but stayed in the brain trust of Cheney and Rove.  Its unbelieveable what Cheney is saying now.  If even a 10th is true - its ludicrous and we voted in a puppet of a megalomaniacal triumvirate. 

From what you've posted here you've been unemployed in the past - Did you ever get unemployment?

Also, you have a disabled daughter - who is going to look after her when you are gone?  What if you have a heart attack or stroke?  When she is 18 are you going to file for Social Security Disability for her?  She's entitled to it - even tho she probably wont have worked a day and payed into it - but everyone else has.  Thats one of the things that the restored payroll tax is for that everyone here complained about.  When she is 22 and no longer eligible for services what are the plans - I can tell you from experience and first hand knowledge - Illinois is bankrupt and the first thing to go was services for disabled persons - including mentally handicapped.  Last I checked the state was trying to place 10 individuals a year into state assisted living - the waiting list is something like 35,000 ahead of you.  Lucky for you now - you can keep your disabled daughter on your medical insurance indefinitely - yeah, everyones rates might go up a tad (what was your last hospital bill for her?)  is that so bad?  Of course, what happens when she's 40 and you and your wife are  dead or unable to care for yourselves?  She becomes a ward of the state?  What if she is raped by institutional care giver (happens all the time - #1 victims of unreported rape are the mentally disabled) and gets pregnant?  Now what?  Have the kid?  Abort it and violate the religious rights ethics(it would be a  "Gift from God" ya know).  Who takes care of your hypothetical grand child? 

This is stuff you have been spouting to get rid of and Rove would love to help you get rid of it.  Bush is off into retired puppet land, Cheney is going insane and hopefully Rumsfeld had a stroke and is gettin his ass wiped by a minimum wage intern.  Rove is still there pullin Tea Party and GOP strings and yours apparently.

Palin made points in my book this past weekend.  Jeb Bush and Mark Rubio have evidently become one side of the GOP with Santorum, Paul and Jindahl on the other side.

I'd go with Jeb first.

Matter of fact if they could convince him to run and NOT prop him up as a puppet like older bro - I'd probably vote for him.  Them others? probably not - Christy changed my mind but the Tea Party has already started to rub him out - he might be runnin as a Dem in the next election.

Are you smellin Coffee yet ........ or still sippin urine tainted tea?   

Offline thnksno

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2013, 07:52:05 PM »
Oh, I get all that - but what you are blindly missing is the fact that it tooks 2 years under steadily deteriorating conditions under Bush before it hit bottom.  On the earlier recessions it already had recovered before that 24 month mark - but with Bush and the GOP in denial it was still hitting bottom 2 months later.  The chart shows that it steadily improves under the Current administration - perhaps hampered by the denial-ridden GOP'ers and Tea Party douchebags still in office.

As an independent I can see where in the next midterm election the GOP does not have a majority in any house - they still don't quite get it.  Oh, well.  I vote for the man and not the party.  Any person who feels that they have to follow party line no longer represents the people - they represent whichever affiliation they have.  We need more independent thinkers and politicians - to bad the masses believe what they hear too much.

Three things Andy. First the recession started in December of 2007, yet NOBODY said a SINGLE WORD about recession until it became apparent that McCain couldn't beat Oblamer, recall it was September 2008 that SHTF. Next, after a hit like what happened 9/08, there is only one way to go, up. Unfortunately Oblamer couldn't contain himself and the super majority otherwise things would probably be stellar right now. Just look at the chart again, the past 10 recessions were followed by an upswing that blew past the start of the dip. Do the math on the number of months (and recall we're looking at UE not GDP) 0% started December 2007 and 25 months later was January 2010. Both Bush and Oblamer presided over the UE dip EQUALLY.

Finally, you have the Tea Party all wrong. Independent thinkers stick to moral and ethical beliefs, that is what makes them INDEPENDENT, they do not throw their morals and beliefs aside to go with a majority. RINO's on the other hand throw out their moral compass in order to reach a deal that might not align with what they believe.

Look, the GOP's problem plain and simple is the fact that there are too many members disguised as liberals. I do not want politicians who will jump to the other side of things just because they don't want to go against the grain. Tea Party favorites go against the grain, like cutting up corned beef. RINO's on the other hand slice corned beef with the grain and what you end up with doing so is corned beef that looks like rice. The GOP need not become more liberal in order to succeed, it just needs to stick to core belief and send CONSISTENT messages.

As an added benefit, I'll leave you with this. The media has done a tremendous hack job on the GOP, yours and Tony's talking points reflect this. Ask any minority out there who freed the slaves and they will flat out tell you the democrats freed the slaves. Ask the same person who wrote all the Jim Crow laws, the answer will be the GOP. I know you know history and I know you know that ain't true!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 07:55:15 PM by thnksno »

Offline snopork

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2013, 09:36:07 PM »
Oh, I get all that - but what you are blindly missing is the fact that it tooks 2 years under steadily deteriorating conditions under Bush before it hit bottom.  On the earlier recessions it already had recovered before that 24 month mark - but with Bush and the GOP in denial it was still hitting bottom 2 months later.  The chart shows that it steadily improves under the Current administration - perhaps hampered by the denial-ridden GOP'ers and Tea Party douchebags still in office.

As an independent I can see where in the next midterm election the GOP does not have a majority in any house - they still don't quite get it.  Oh, well.  I vote for the man and not the party.  Any person who feels that they have to follow party line no longer represents the people - they represent whichever affiliation they have.  We need more independent thinkers and politicians - to bad the masses believe what they hear too much.

Three things Andy. First the recession started in December of 2007, yet NOBODY said a SINGLE WORD about recession until it became apparent that McCain couldn't beat Oblamer, recall it was September 2008 that SHTF. Next, after a hit like what happened 9/08, there is only one way to go, up. Unfortunately Oblamer couldn't contain himself and the super majority otherwise things would probably be stellar right now. Just look at the chart again, the past 10 recessions were followed by an upswing that blew past the start of the dip. Do the math on the number of months (and recall we're looking at UE not GDP) 0% started December 2007 and 25 months later was January 2010. Both Bush and Oblamer presided over the UE dip EQUALLY.

Finally, you have the Tea Party all wrong. Independent thinkers stick to moral and ethical beliefs, that is what makes them INDEPENDENT, they do not throw their morals and beliefs aside to go with a majority. RINO's on the other hand throw out their moral compass in order to reach a deal that might not align with what they believe.

Look, the GOP's problem plain and simple is the fact that there are too many members disguised as liberals. I do not want politicians who will jump to the other side of things just because they don't want to go against the grain. Tea Party favorites go against the grain, like cutting up corned beef. RINO's on the other hand slice corned beef with the grain and what you end up with doing so is corned beef that looks like rice. The GOP need not become more liberal in order to succeed, it just needs to stick to core belief and send CONSISTENT messages.

As an added benefit, I'll leave you with this. The media has done a tremendous hack job on the GOP, yours and Tony's talking points reflect this. Ask any minority out there who freed the slaves and they will flat out tell you the democrats freed the slaves. Ask the same person who wrote all the Jim Crow laws, the answer will be the GOP. I know you know history and I know you know that ain't true!
Dude - did you stoner your memory.  Yes the word recession was used in 2007 - Sen. Graham and Carl Rove and Dick Cheney all told the press and you that it was liberal leaning  economists trying to scare the people.  They convinced the Puppet that it wasn't happening.  By your own admission it did and by Marc's chart they denied it existed for 2 years as unemployment soared.  If your can pull out that drug diluted memory you might remember that the GM plant in janesville announced it was closing up due to the recession and drop in demand for their cars in the fall of 2007 - a friend of mines wife was terminated in that one.  you mite remember

Your first point debunked - your wrong

Your second point - Bush presided over the entire fall - Obama took the oath at the end of January and it was nothing but up after that. A slight burp and level off then up after that.  Obama resided over none of the crash - only the recovery despite what you like to dredge.  Look the stock market was at its highest in 15 years a few days ago.  How can you figure "equally" when the entire dip occurred before Obama was in office?  the upswing occurred entirely after Obama took office - so, NO, GW gets the whole dip to himself....pass the chips please

Your second point debunked - your wrong........again

Your third point I'll call it your opinion is yours mine is mine.  Mine is more right tho :biggrin:.

Lincoln was a republican - aint that funny.  However- lets clarify that in Lincoln's day Republicans were friends of the people and farmers and not necessarily a party beholden to the rich.   The thought of freeing slaves wreaked havoc to the wealthy south.  A wealth brought about by the agricultura industry......and slave labor.   The north needed the souths products for their textile industry and the loss of that didn't bode well for a lot of businessmen and wealthy individuals.  The 1800's republican party was not the republican party of today.  But then how could it be?  I'm not even sure the democratic party even existed yet in name or form.

Tea Party is a collusion of fanatical and destructive debt reduction sycopants and well-offs who gained creedance with militia type individuals, skin heads and nazis.  Could give a shit if they bring down society or not.  They are not particulaRLY religious - I know a few and they aint seen a pew in decades.  I loosely consider them friends and don't converse in politics cuzz they are like rabid dogs and even if you were 100% right  - in their opinion it doesnt matter. So, in the interest of "fug your politics - lets have a beer" I just withdraw from their inane conversations - lest they irritate me to the point of physically adjusting their mentality (which kind of ruins the moment) one of their biggest complaints to me was " This country ain't ready for a black President"  to which I responded "Thank goodness he's only half black - they can ease into it"

The religious interference in the GOP has little to do with the Tea Party = its mostly the old fugs playin to the old folks to get elected time after time.....they juss happen to be GOP'ers lately with the dumb comments.   I could give a rats ass if 2 homos want to live together and bag one another.  Its not worth the argument or waste of resources when there are more important things to get accomplished.  Don't like queers? - don't let em in your church then and make em have their own - something like "Church of the Open Sphincter" or "First church of Licketty Split" .   But keep it out of politics and national security.  Homos can shoot guns and catch bullets just as good as the hetero's.  Let God judge them and us for our actions.  That's in the bible to ya know.   Anyone who is overly concerned about Lesbians and queers living together probably has a latent fear that they might be inclined to smoke the trouser stogie of their best friend and like it...or that their female companions might find better experiences munchin the rug with their girlfriends. 

Whatever 


Offline tony b

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2013, 07:42:50 AM »
As an independent I can see where in the next midterm election the GOP does not have a majority in any house - they still don't quite get it.  Oh, well.  I vote for the man and not the party.  Any person who feels that they have to follow party line no longer represents the people - they represent whichever affiliation they have.  We need more independent thinkers and politicians - to bad the masses believe what they hear too much.

you say that and you voted (and continue to praise) one of the most partisan guys ever in the white house???   :laugh-til-cry:
Yea, right.  Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove were by far the most partisan guys ever.  The comparison isn't even close.  The more Cheney speaks now and writes in his book - the more I'm convinced Bush was the weakest president we've had in modern times.  He was an electable and likeable puppet who was steered and manipulated by Rove, Cheney and Rumsfeld.  When Rumsfeld got into hot water he resigned but stayed in the brain trust of Cheney and Rove.  Its unbelieveable what Cheney is saying now.  If even a 10th is true - its ludicrous and we voted in a puppet of a megalomaniacal triumvirate. 
I have zero illusions about bush/cheney being partisan as well, at least bush governed in the center (most of his policies are decidedly centrist, particularly with regard to expansion of govt)

Quote
From what you've posted here you've been unemployed in the past - Did you ever get unemployment?

Also, you have a disabled daughter - who is going to look after her when you are gone?  What if you have a heart attack or stroke?  When she is 18 are you going to file for Social Security Disability for her?  She's entitled to it - even tho she probably wont have worked a day and payed into it - but everyone else has.  Thats one of the things that the restored payroll tax is for that everyone here complained about.  When she is 22 and no longer eligible for services what are the plans - I can tell you from experience and first hand knowledge - Illinois is bankrupt and the first thing to go was services for disabled persons - including mentally handicapped.  Last I checked the state was trying to place 10 individuals a year into state assisted living - the waiting list is something like 35,000 ahead of you.  Lucky for you now - you can keep your disabled daughter on your medical insurance indefinitely - yeah, everyones rates might go up a tad (what was your last hospital bill for her?) is that so bad?  Of course, what happens when she's 40 and you and your wife are  dead or unable to care for yourselves?  She becomes a ward of the state?  What if she is raped by institutional care giver (happens all the time - #1 victims of unreported rape are the mentally disabled) and gets pregnant?  Now what?  Have the kid?  Abort it and violate the religious rights ethics(it would be a  "Gift from God" ya know).  Who takes care of your hypothetical grand child? 
with regard to the bolded piece, complete bullshit, my daughter could stay on my insurance LONG before obamacare, it was corporate policy.  so you are completely off base on that.
Quote
This is stuff you have been spouting to get rid of and Rove would love to help you get rid of it.  Bush is off into retired puppet land, Cheney is going insane and hopefully Rumsfeld had a stroke and is gettin his ass wiped by a minimum wage intern.  Rove is still there pullin Tea Party and GOP strings and yours apparently.
I have made VERY clear my disdain for the tea party, so I'm not sure where you are getting this load.  as i've said repeatedly, my political views are more libertarian than anything, fiscal conservative/social moderate, the GOP don't jive anymore in my eyes, but ANYTHING is better than the borderline communistic tendencies of the democratic party.

Quote
Palin made points in my book this past weekend.  Jeb Bush and Mark Rubio have evidently become one side of the GOP with Santorum, Paul and Jindahl on the other side.

I'd go with Jeb first.

Matter of fact if they could convince him to run and NOT prop him up as a puppet like older bro - I'd probably vote for him.  Them others? probably not - Christy changed my mind but the Tea Party has already started to rub him out - he might be runnin as a Dem in the next election.

Are you smellin Coffee yet ........ or still sippin urine tainted tea?   
Jeb will never get elected because of his brother's legacy even though he does at least appear to be much closer to center than his brother.
You hate your job??  why didn't you say so?? well, there's a support group for that, it's called EVERYBODY and they meet at the bar.

Offline snopork

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Re: Jobs Numbers in perspecetive
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2013, 08:08:47 AM »
As an independent I can see where in the next midterm election the GOP does not have a majority in any house - they still don't quite get it.  Oh, well.  I vote for the man and not the party.  Any person who feels that they have to follow party line no longer represents the people - they represent whichever affiliation they have.  We need more independent thinkers and politicians - to bad the masses believe what they hear too much.

you say that and you voted (and continue to praise) one of the most partisan guys ever in the white house???   :laugh-til-cry:
Yea, right.  Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove were by far the most partisan guys ever.  The comparison isn't even close.  The more Cheney speaks now and writes in his book - the more I'm convinced Bush was the weakest president we've had in modern times.  He was an electable and likeable puppet who was steered and manipulated by Rove, Cheney and Rumsfeld.  When Rumsfeld got into hot water he resigned but stayed in the brain trust of Cheney and Rove.  Its unbelieveable what Cheney is saying now.  If even a 10th is true - its ludicrous and we voted in a puppet of a megalomaniacal triumvirate. 
I have zero illusions about bush/cheney being partisan as well, at least bush governed in the center (most of his policies are decidedly centrist, particularly with regard to expansion of govt)

Quote
From what you've posted here you've been unemployed in the past - Did you ever get unemployment?

Also, you have a disabled daughter - who is going to look after her when you are gone?  What if you have a heart attack or stroke?  When she is 18 are you going to file for Social Security Disability for her?  She's entitled to it - even tho she probably wont have worked a day and payed into it - but everyone else has.  Thats one of the things that the restored payroll tax is for that everyone here complained about.  When she is 22 and no longer eligible for services what are the plans - I can tell you from experience and first hand knowledge - Illinois is bankrupt and the first thing to go was services for disabled persons - including mentally handicapped.  Last I checked the state was trying to place 10 individuals a year into state assisted living - the waiting list is something like 35,000 ahead of you.  Lucky for you now - you can keep your disabled daughter on your medical insurance indefinitely - yeah, everyones rates might go up a tad (what was your last hospital bill for her?) is that so bad?  Of course, what happens when she's 40 and you and your wife are  dead or unable to care for yourselves?  She becomes a ward of the state?  What if she is raped by institutional care giver (happens all the time - #1 victims of unreported rape are the mentally disabled) and gets pregnant?  Now what?  Have the kid?  Abort it and violate the religious rights ethics(it would be a  "Gift from God" ya know).  Who takes care of your hypothetical grand child? 
with regard to the bolded piece, complete bullshit, my daughter could stay on my insurance LONG before obamacare, it was corporate policy.  so you are completely off base on that.
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This is stuff you have been spouting to get rid of and Rove would love to help you get rid of it.  Bush is off into retired puppet land, Cheney is going insane and hopefully Rumsfeld had a stroke and is gettin his ass wiped by a minimum wage intern.  Rove is still there pullin Tea Party and GOP strings and yours apparently.
I have made VERY clear my disdain for the tea party, so I'm not sure where you are getting this load.  as i've said repeatedly, my political views are more libertarian than anything, fiscal conservative/social moderate, the GOP don't jive anymore in my eyes, but ANYTHING is better than the borderline communistic tendencies of the democratic party.

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Palin made points in my book this past weekend.  Jeb Bush and Mark Rubio have evidently become one side of the GOP with Santorum, Paul and Jindahl on the other side.

I'd go with Jeb first.

Matter of fact if they could convince him to run and NOT prop him up as a puppet like older bro - I'd probably vote for him.  Them others? probably not - Christy changed my mind but the Tea Party has already started to rub him out - he might be runnin as a Dem in the next election.

Are you smellin Coffee yet ........ or still sippin urine tainted tea?   
Jeb will never get elected because of his brother's legacy even though he does at least appear to be much closer to center than his brother.
OK